The Next Stop: METRO's Podcast Episode 32: A Transit Trailblazer's Story- Shirley DeLibero Shirley DeLibero: Once it looked like it was really going to happen, the staff and I all got together, and we said, “Failure is not an option.” Laura Whitley: I’m Laura Whitley. In this edition of The Next Stop, a fascinating conversation with a true transit trailblazer. [music] Laura Whitley: I am very pleased to welcome today’s guest, Ms. Shirley DeLibero. She is METRO’s former CEO, among many other things, known to many as the “Queen of Transit,” and to some very fortunate few, “Mom” and “Grandma.” Ms. DeLibero, thank you so much for joining us today. Shirley DeLibero: It’s my pleasure. Laura Whitley: We are recognizing you here at METRO this month, during Black History Month, as a transit trailblazer, and that’s truly what you have done during your career. Not just here at Houston, but really all over the country. Here in Houston, you oversaw the construction and early operation of METRORail, and you blazed trails in so many places, really shattering gender and racial barriers through your career. I’m interested to know how you would describe that drive to not allow those barriers to stop you. Shirley DeLibero: Well, how I got into the business anyway was strange. I was divorced and had two children, and I was a product line rep for a company called Digital, probably before your time, when they had the computers were probably the size of a room. My mother told me that I would have to get a job where I was staying in Boston and not traveling because, in that particular position, I was traveling a lot. So, I decided to—they were looking for women actually in Boston. Governor Dukakis, at the time, wanted to put more women in these non-traditional jobs, and it sounded like a great thing for me. So, I signed on, got hired. But I can tell you it was not an easy task. The first job that I got at the T, I was the product line manager, refurbishing old streetcars, and in that job, I was in charge of probably 300 people, but they were mechanics, they were carpenters because we were literally taking the old streetcars apart and putting them back together. And Boston, the T, at that time, was predominantly Irish-Catholic, and I tell everybody that the only thing I had going for me was that I was Catholic, so I figured I was safe. But it was a tough job, really. In fact, I saw so much racial discrimination at that job because every time I would walk on the floor to check and make sure they were all doing their jobs and everything, you would hear this echo out there, and they would say, “Here comes….” Laura Whitley: They would holler out racial epithets as she approached. Shirley DeLibero: Then they’d put, when I left at night, they would write all these obscenities on my door. So, you know, my years there were pretty tough. And you had to be thick-skinned. I knew that I loved the industry and that I wanted someday to be a general manager somewhere, and I knew I was going to run into—I didn’t realize how much racism there was in that shop, but it taught me to be pretty tough and to understand and not take it personal. Laura Whitley: Can you talk a little bit more about that? I mean, that not taking it personal and being able to then, despite that very hostile environment, focus on your own personal and professional goals? Shirley DeLibero: I realized that, pretty sure that, this racism stemmed from when they were kids because you have to be taught this. I tried to realize what my goal was, you know? I had to look beyond this. You know, I kind of convinced myself that “sticks and stones may break my bones, but names will never harm me.” And I think the fact that it was a good-paying job—I was divorced with two children, so I needed the job. So, I think it helped toughen me up for later years. I have to tell you, though, when I left that job, they loved me. It took a while, but they loved me when I left. Laura Whitley: No doubt! And you said you developed a thick skin. It sounds like you came in with one. So, what was the turning point? I mean, you said when you left, they loved you. What happened? Shirley DeLibero: Well, what happened was, one day we had a serious problem on the train, on one of the vehicles that we were refurbishing. So, when I went home that night, I was looking at schematics and trying to figure out what was wrong, and somebody called me at home to tell me what the problem was and that when I bring everybody together on the next day, I should tell them that this is the problem and send somebody to fix it. And we had one loudmouth there who always had a lot to say, and this guy said you should have him go and fix it. So, I thought about it all night. I said, “Either I’m going to be a hero, or they’re setting me up.” My mother used to instill in me that there are good people out there and there is good in everyone, which sometimes I found hard to believe. Laura Whitley: Uh-hmm. Shirley DeLibero: But anyway, I decided on the way into work that I was going to trust this person—he wouldn’t give me his name or anything. So, when I got there, I got everybody together, and I told them what I thought the problem was, and the loudmouth then said, “Oh, yeah, she thinks she knows everything. You know she doesn’t know what she’s talking about.” I said, “Well, you go down, and this is what I think the remedy is.” And I did verbatim what the guy told me on the phone. And I was dying because I said, “Oh my God! If this doesn’t work, I’m going to be the biggest jerk!” And about 20 minutes later, so it solved the problem. I never ever found out who this person was, and I gained their respect. Because after a while after that, they would say, “Hey, Boss, we got this problem.” I’d say, “Go figure it out. That’s what I’m paying you for.” So, I think the reason that they eventually respected me, and the name-calling stopped was because they thought like I was one of them and knew my stuff. Laura Whitley: Wow! It sounds like you’re saying that you then empowered your staff to be problem solvers, and is that a practice that you carried with you throughout your career in management and across the transit agencies you worked? Shirley DeLibero: Right. I always allowed people to do their own thing. I mean, it was very important to me that I learn. I mean, I read schematics, and I learned about the vehicles, but I also empowered them to do their thing. I mean, that’s what they were hired for. That was their expertise. And the real reason I did after that was because nobody was calling me and giving me any more directions! So, they had to figure it out. Laura Whitley: No more anonymous tips, right? Shirley DeLibero: Right! No more anonymous tips. Laura Whitley: So, what was it about public transit that caught you and your imagination and sort of turned the trajectory of just a kind of good-paying job into something that you wanted to be a profession? Shirley DeLibero: Because before that, I was in the manufacturing world and then at Digital where I was a product line rep. What I felt about transportation was that transportation is very important for the economy, for people to be able to go to their places of worship, to the doctors, to the market. And I felt like every night when I came home—I felt good about it. That we’re helping people move, and that meant a lot. It was very rewarding to me. Laura Whitley: Absolutely. I can identify. Actually, I told you my colleague, Monica Russo, and I are both on the line, and we often talk about that, just how impactful and meaningful the work is working in public transit. Shirley DeLibero: It’s true. Laura Whitley: Can you tell me a little bit about the steps you took in terms of your strategy and staying on course to reach your goal of being a GM? Shirley DeLibero: So, I put together in my mind a five-year plan, and my plan was if I was at any one of these places more than five years and I didn’t get promoted, it was time to move on. Because I really wanted to be able to learn all the modes. Laura Whitley: And learn she did. Building a career after leaving Boston that included stops in Washington, D.C., Dallas, New Jersey, and eventually, after much success, a stop in Houston. And that started with a call from Mayor Lee Brown. Can you tell me about that? Shirley DeLibero: Yeah. Mayor Lee Brown called me, and he said, “You know, I want my legacy to be light rail here in Houston.” And I said, “Good luck. You guys have been trying for 30 years to build it. It ain’t gonna happen.” And he said to me, “Well, if Dallas can do it, Houston can do it.” And I said, “Well, good luck.” And he said, “But everybody I talk to when I say, ‘Who should we bring here?’ Your name keeps coming up.” I said, “Well, flattery will get you nowhere. I appreciate it. Because I have worked very hard to do good jobs at every transit authority I’ve been. But my goal is to retire from here.” And I think at that time—so that was ’99. Laura Whitley: You were in your early 60s, right? Shirley DeLibero: I was in my early 60s, and I said, “I have no intention of going back to Houston.” He said, “Well, just come and interview and let’s talk.” At the end of the conversation, I said, “I’m coming.” Laura Whitley: So, you came. You knew that getting light rail in Houston would be challenging. Why did you feel like it was something worth fighting for? Shirley DeLibero: So, it was tough, but the Mayor was so emphatic about this being his legacy and wanting to do that, that we all pitched in. I can tell you we worked our butts off to get this thing to happen, and once it looked like it was really going to happen, the staff and I all got together, and we said, “Failure is not an option.” It was very rewarding. I probably had, as I said, talented folks, and everybody worked. We knew nobody could go on vacation, so those five weeks I had didn’t mean anything because we were all working to make this happen. Laura Whitley: The groundbreaking was actually 20 years ago next month. Shirley DeLibero: Wow! Yeah, Jesus, that’s right! Wow. Time flies when you’re having fun. Laura Whitley: It certainly does. What do you recall from that time? Shirley DeLibero: That day was a fabulous day! First, my kids got to see what I do for a living and really appreciate it. They were like, “Wow, Ma! You built this?” So, I was a hero for a day. It was very gratifying to see the people that were out there. Everybody says, “Well, you’re going to open on January 1st. No one is going to come out there.” I said, “You want to bet? We’ll have a mob out there.” Because it was something new for the system, and we picked a very state-of-the-art sleek vehicle that kind of went in with Houston and the spaceships and the whole bit. So, it was a glorious day, and it was funny, because the night before the opening, I talked to the Mayor, and I said, “You know, I’ve never built anything from start to finish, and I would love to drive that first car out.” He laughed at me, and he looked at me, and he said, “Get over it.” So, he drove the first car out, which was appropriate. It was a great day. It was a beautiful day out, and the funniest thing is, we had a VIP car that was supposed to be just the Mayor’s and all the muckety-mucks in that first car. And as a result, some people snuck in that car, so it was really loaded, and I was nervous as hell because I know we have a weight restriction, and it looked like we were way beyond that. So, when the Mayor was upfront in the seat, and there was an operator directing him how to go, it was taking a long time for the train to move, and I was like, “Oh, please, God, let this train move!” And just as I said that it moved! And we went on our way. And it was a fabulous opening. Laura Whitley: No doubt. How do you think that the obstacles and barriers that you broke throughout your career prepared you to break this barrier at METRO and in Houston in terms of the opposition that there was to this type of transit expansion? Shirley DeLibero: I think by the time I got to Houston, I was Hard-Hearted Hannah, and I wasn’t taking “No” for an answer. I went to all the community meetings, and at some of them, we got beat up pretty badly. But I knew that number 1, Houston needed light rail. You had the hospital there. It was a perfect, perfect first line. Several people said, “Oh, you should put it on Fannin downtown and not on Main.” And I’m like, “No. We’re putting it on Main because once we build this system, this city is going to flourish.” Rail—it stimulates the economy. I said, “And it’s very different than the bus because you can move a bus stop anywhere. The rail, once you put it down, is pretty stationary.” So, developers will want to build around it because they know the rail’s not going anywhere. So, I think I kind of convinced them. I know I convinced them to go on Main Street and then on Fannin further up because of all the hospitals there and the hospital workers. I swear to God, we started every meeting saying, “Failure is not an option.” Laura Whitley: Failure is not an option. Shirley DeLibero: Yeah. Laura Whitley: What you say is true. I mean, now, we’re up to three different lines and continue to get feedback that the property values in terms of how much they’ve grown, you’re right. It truly has been transformative. You have since retired and have been honored in the Hall of Fame by the American Public Transportation Association and have scholarships in your honor. Shirley DeLibero: And have that building in my name down there! Laura Whitley: The building in your name. Shirley DeLibero: Oh my God, I was so excited at my last meeting there with the Board. They gave me this proclamation, and they gave me a pen, and as I was walking away, and the Chairman said, “You don’t want this?” And it was a picture of the building with my name on it, and I cried like a baby. It is my wallpaper on my phone. It is on my computer. That building is everywhere. Laura Whitley: I’m just interested to know in this month, Black History Month, and even in this time, where there are so many more conversations in the public discourse about systemic racism and how we deal with that as a country and as people. How do you view things, and what is your advice? Shirley DeLibero: You know, it’s tough because Boston has always been known for its lack of diversity and its racial problems, and so I grew up with them, really. I don’t know. I think it’s ignorance. I just try to find the good in everybody. I mean, and that’s the thing my mother taught me when I was little, but I’ve never allowed myself to think any different, so when I ran into these things, or even now when I talk to folks that I know. Laura Whitley: One of the things, though, I read about you is during your career in management, and you talked about it, you said you grew up largely in a multicultural environment there in Boston, but you worked to bring down those barriers within your staff, kind of bringing folks together. I understand through like dinners at your house. Can you tell me about that and the role that that played? Shirley DeLibero: It was so much fun. We used to have the United Way, and the employees would donate to the United Way. I decided that we were going to have a drawing, and all the money was going to go to United Way. We were going to have a drawing. People had to put their money in there, and I was going to pick five people, and I didn’t care if they were in management or if they were the janitor. It did not matter. I was going to have a dinner at my house, and I was going to do the cooking, so it wasn’t going to be one of these where you cater it. I was going to do it. So, one year I had a bus operator—a black bus operator, I had a white mechanic, I had an Asian, I think she was a lawyer there at the time, but we had a really mix of people, and it was awesome. And they saw me in a different element. They saw me cooking and waiting on them, and it became such a hit that I did it every year until I left. It gave me a good opportunity to talk to different people and find out their background and what enticed them to come to METRO and the whole bit. So, it was very rewarding for not only them but for me. Laura Whitley: And eye-opening too, because, again, it had people that wouldn’t normally interact, interact with one another. Shirley DeLibero: Yeah. Laura Whitley: Yeah. As we close out here, what do you think the future holds for women and minorities in the transit industry? Shirley DeLibero: I think we’ve come a long way in the Transit Authority. There were two women that I had mentored over the years, and now one is heading the Transit Authority in Cleveland. The other one is in, I think she’s in Alabama, but they just picked another black female in Cincinnati. Laura Whitley: And in Denver, as well. Shirley DeLibero: And in Denver, yes! And it is happening, and I’m excited about it. We bring a different perspective. Laura Whitley: Uh-hmm. Shirley DeLibero: It’s happening. Laura Whitley: What parting words or advice do you have for this next generation? What do you have for all of us? What do you tell your grandkids? Shirley DeLibero: When I talk to the young people today is that we worked really hard to get where we got. Hard work—that hasn’t changed. You still have to put the effort in there, and if you do a good job, and you’re conscientious, and you’re a good person, people recognize that. I mean, when I look at my career, other than the T, applying for a job, that was the last job I ever applied for. Everything else became word of mouth. People heard about me, and so that’s what I think you millennials have to learn and appreciate. Nothing is a given. You gotta work for it. Laura Whitley: Hard work. Shirley DeLibero: Hard work! Laura Whitley: Thank you so much for your contributions, Shirley DeLibero, our METRO transit trailblazer. Thank you so much for joining The Next Stop today. Shirley DeLibero: You’re welcome, and the next time I come to Houston, I’m going to come and visit you. Laura Whitley: That would be fantastic. That would be lovely. I look forward to meeting you, and hopefully, we’ll be able to travel here before too long. Shirley DeLibero: I know, I know! And you know, the funniest thing is that I tell everybody that transit careers have been great to me. I can live very comfortably now. But I also say that every one of the transit properties that I worked that I leave a little of my heart there. I think what I love about it is I was in Washington, maybe two years ago, and I was crossing the street and I was with some other people. The bus driver pulled over to the side of the road, a bus full of people, which he shouldn’t have done, got out, “Ms. DeLibero! Ms. DeLibero!” And gave me a big hug. Laura Whitley: Oh. Shirley DeLibero: And that’s the stuff that’s the most rewarding. I mean, it was rewarding being able to provide service to make people’s lives easier but also the many, many wonderful employees that I had over the years because I tell everybody, “Without them, I couldn’t have done it.” No one person can do this. You need a village, and I had not only a great village but very conscientious people. See, when I talk about it, I get teary-eyed. [music] Laura Whitley: That’s all for this edition of The Next Stop. I’m Laura Whitley. If you’d like to check out more episodes, you can find them on our website or subscribe on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, Spotify, or Google Play, and while you’re there, if you could leave us a rating or review, that’ll help us out a lot. Until next time, drive less, do more with METRO.