The Next Stop: METRO's Podcast Episode 58: Fueled by Passion - Pioneering the Shift to Zero-Emission Buses Andrei Dragomir: Working at METRO, I can actually make a difference to clean up the air. But not only that, I would like for my kids to look up to me and say, “Oh, wow, look what my dad is doing.” Doug Delony: I’m Doug Delony. On this edition of the Next Stop: Unleashing a greener future with METRO’s zero-emission buses! [Introduction Music plays] Doug Delony: Welcome, Andrei Dragomir. He’s the manager of Technical Services at METRO. I think that’s your title, right, Andrei? Andrei Dragomir: That is correct. That is my title. Doug Delony: Okay. But like so many of us here at METRO, we are more than just a title, and we do so much more than what our titles suggest. So, please, tell me what some of your responsibilities are. Andrei Dragomir: So, my responsibilities at METRO include writing technical specifications, going to bus manufacturers to make sure we are getting what we are paying for, inspecting the buses. Once the buses get over to Houston METRO, we do the initial testing to make sure that the bus is ready to be placed in revenue service. In addition to that, I also approve all the parts that get installed on our buses or any other technology that gets introduced at METRO. Doug Delony: I know we have several different series of buses that we use. And now, you know, we’re going into this zero-emissions realm. So, I don’t know how you keep track of it all and the different parts that are needed for each one, but my hat’s off to you. I was actually—I went over to your LinkedIn, stalking you. [laughs] You’re a smart guy! It was almost, like, I was reading your bio, it’s almost like you’re a cross between a scientist and engineer. I mean, how do you keep track of everything that it takes to keep our buses going? Andrei Dragomir: Pretty much, not gonna lie, I have no life. Doug Delony: [laughs] Andrei Dragomir: Everything gets…[laughs]…Everything evolves around what I’m interested in, and since I was very little, I was interested in moving mechanical things. So, I, initially, I became—I wanted to be an engineer first, but quickly, I realized that I went through four years of engineering—aerospace engineering, to be more exact—and I realized I wanted to be hands-on. I wanted to put my hands on everything, and I wanted to see how stuff works. And from then on out, I became a mechanic. I realized I really need to finish my degree, went back and finished in finance. So, I am, like you said, a weird mechanic with a degree with knowledge of finances. Doug Delony: That’s crazy. Andrei Dragomir: I… Doug Delony: Wow. Andrei Dragomir: …I constantly keep up with everything that’s out there on the market. Doug Delony: I think it’s great that you have such a passion for it. And that’s really kind of what it takes, right? To keep our system going. Andrei Dragomir: I think so. It’s really interesting you say this because I was actually having a conversation with my wife, and I told her, “I really want to make a change in the world. I want to make a difference.” Working at METRO, I can actually make a difference. I can help METRO just move forwards towards better electric fuel cell zero-emission buses, in general, to clean up the air. But not only that, I would like for my kids to look up to me and say, “Oh, wow, look what my dad is doing, and look what technologies are coming in.” And we need to show the kids that the buses is not just a bus. We are moving technology forward by introducing absolutely all of this in, and we have to get them excited about the future. So, we have to give our kids a chance. So, that’s one of my passions right now. Doug Delony: That’s incredible. It is very rewarding working for METRO, no matter which position you are with at METRO. I mean, to serve the community and also to, I mean, put it bluntly, to get paid to serve the community, and we’ve got great benefits, so I would encourage everyone to head on over to our website workformetro.org or ridemetro.org/careers and look for those opportunities. I do want to talk real quick about sustainability, and specifically, METRO’s Climate Action Plan, because our electric buses and paratransit vans are actually part of a much bigger vision. The United States government has committed to achieving a fifty (50%) percent reduction in greenhouse gas emissions. So, to help with this, Houston METRO will obtain only zero-emission buses by the fiscal year 2030. There are also going to apply green principles to the design and management of facilities and promote energy management and waste reduction opportunities. Now that is the very abbreviated version. You can read our Climate Action Plan at ridemetro.org. And there you will find out it’s about more than just the vehicles used. It’s simple things like recycling the water that’s used to clean our vehicles. Recycling all scrap metal, tires, batteries, used coolants and oils, used filters, all of that would be recycled. So having said all that, we’re not just talking about electric or battery-powered only electric buses, which I know is the big thing right now we’re so excited about. But METRO has already been running something like 400 clean-running diesel-electric hybrid buses, right? Andrei Dragomir: That is correct. We actually started purchasing hybrid buses in 2007. So, we have a long history of running cleaner buses, so to speak. In 2010, we purchased an additional 276 hybrids, and in 2011, we even purchased commuter buses that are hybrid. So, we’ve been in the electrification business, so to speak, for quite a while. This is not something new. The only thing that is changing is how you store that energy, right? The bus is the same. The powertrain is the same. But instead of diesel fuel, you use batteries, or hopefully, in the future, we will be able to use fuel cell buses. So, we can begin the testing on those buses to see how we can integrate them into the fleet. Doug Delony: So those hydrogen fuel cell buses are also a form of electric bus? Is that correct? Andrei Dragomir: That is correct. The powertrain is exactly the same. It’s just that instead of carrying batteries, we are going to carry hydrogen tanks. Doug Delony: So, this is part of the reason why if you look at, you know, METRO’s, some of the materials, marketing materials, what we advertise when we talk about our Climate Action Plan, we don’t just focus on electric buses or battery-electric buses. We like to say zero-emissions because we’re focused on multiple forms of zero-emission vehicles. Is that a good way to say that? Andrei Dragomir: That is correct. Well, we at Houston METRO, we like to say that we are a technology of choice agency. So, as we went through the progression, we went through the hybrid phase. But we learned a lot. We learned a lot in the process. Then moved forward, and then we introduced C&G (06:51) to our fleet. So as the technology was maturing, Houston METRO would adopt it. So, now we believe that the technology has matured enough or it’s okay for us to go ahead to move forward with battery-electric buses, and the fuel cell buses are also at a point where they’re maturing, and we can move forward with that technology also. Doug Delony: I think it’s great. I mean, we always hear about, you know, naysayers as far as at the consumer level. You know, people who buy their personal vehicles, and they get an EV. And people have been denying and downplaying and trying to say this will never work. They’ve been saying for what? Almost like 30 years at this point. It started with the hybrid vehicles. “That’ll never work. That’s not gonna work.” Then the electric vehicles started coming out. “Oh, that’ll never work.” And we’ve only seen the numbers continue to go up and up and up because I feel like the batteries, you know, they’re getting lighter. The batteries are more easily, you know, recyclable. They store more energy. They can get better mileage out of them. Andrei Dragomir: Yes, it’s a fair assessment. But, like, you said, the batteries are getting lighter. We can store more energy per kilogram with the batteries, but at the same time, there is a fine line on how many batteries you can carry because, in the end, we are in the business of transporting people, right? Doug Delony: Right. Andrei Dragomir: That’s our main goal. And we have to make our customers happy. So, we have to be careful with how many batteries we put on the bus. There’s additional technologies we can implement, like, overhead opportunity charging, wherein about 10 minutes, we can gain an additional twenty (20%) percent state of charge, which equates to another 40 miles that we can keep the bus out there. So, there are downsides and upsides to everything, but they can all be overcome. We just have to plan ahead. Doug Delony: Talking about those batteries. I understand—are the batteries on our electric bus, it’s kind of on the roof? Or how does that work? Andrei Dragomir: The bus we are purchasing we have six battery packs. Four of them on the roof, and two of them are underneath the bus outside of the passenger compartment, in the back of the bus, where the fuel tank would be so, although six batteries have a capacity of 564 kilowatts. Doug Delony: So, the batteries being on the roof, though, I actually took a very brief ride on one for the first time a week ago, and I was surprised by the sound. You know, just ‘cuz I’m used to the roar of the engine in the back of the bus, which causes a lot of noise, but in this case, I could only hear like the air conditioning inside the bus, so that was kind of cool but also, I would say almost awkwardly quiet for us and the passengers. [laughs] Andrei Dragomir: Well, that is correct. It’s funny you bring that up because when we first, when the bus came in initially, me being a mechanic, initially I thought, “I’m gonna miss that humming of the diesel engine and the noise of the turbo.” But the more and more I’ve been riding in the bus, I am really enjoying the quietness of the bus. Doug Delony: Right. Andrei Dragomir: It’s really incredible how far we’ve come. Doug Delony: And it seems like it’s a little smoother of a ride too. Am I making that up? Or, I mean, it just feels like it’s a smoother ride. Andrei Dragomir: It is a little bit of a smoother ride. The bus is 3,000 pounds heavier, so it provides a little bit of a smoother ride. That is correct. Doug Delony: Let’s talk about the technical aspect. I mean, how hard is it to make this leap that we’re talking about from traditional buses, or diesel hybrid buses, to fully electric buses? I understand that we’re not just investing in the vehicles, but we also have to invest in facilities and the tools to keep these vehicles charged and running. I mean, that’s got to be pretty difficult. Andrei Dragomir: The first thing anybody should do if they’re thinking to upgrade or move over to battery electric buses is go talk to the power company and ask the power company, “Do we have enough power available to charge the bus at the depot?” For example, at some of our facilities, we have seven megawatts available. At other facilities, we are limited to one megawatt, which would mean we can only have five buses at a facility, while in others, we can house up to 50-60 buses. So, that is a long process. The infrastructure side can take up to two, two and a half years because you have to get the power company. You have to get contractors to come and dig and install additional power lines. You will tear up your yard, and that takes time. So, we’ve been working on the infrastructure side of it for at least two years. And the bus takes about a year or a year and a half to build. So, you have to jump ahead of the bus to even get where we are today. Doug Delony: Right. Andrei Dragomir: The infrastructure has to be in place, and then the bus can come and charge because these buses have a lot of battery power on board, so you cannot go to the mall where there’s a charger, plug it in… Doug Delony: Right. Andrei Dragomir: …because we’ll stay there for, you know, two days to charge the bus. Doug Delony: [laughs] Andrei Dragomir: What our bus is right now, we can charge ‘em from 0 to 100 in about three and a half hours. Doug Delony: Okay. Andrei Dragomir: And with opportunity charging en route, if the buses come back at fifty (50%) percent, they’ll be ready to go in an hour and an hour and a half. So, that’s what we’re planning to do right now. Doug Delony: Suffice it to say, I mean, this is a very well-thought-out and well-planned process. This is not at all, “Well, let’s plug it in and see if the power grid can handle it or not.” We’re not doing any of that. We’re doing a lot of testing. A lot of number crunching. And having multiple contractors and other companies and partners involved in making this happen. Andrei Dragomir: That’s correct. And in addition, all of our chargers will have telematics, which means we can control the power that is required. Doug Delony: How do we go about testing these electric buses? I mean, what kind of things are we looking for? You get in, and you drive it around? I mean, it’s much more complicated than a personal electric vehicle, I’m sure. Andrei Dragomir: Well, yes, and sometimes we have to go back to the basics. So, first, we just drive it around to get a feel for the bus, but then, literally, we go back to the basics where we put water barrels in the bus… Doug Delony: Oh, wow. Andrei Dragomir: …and we just run the route. And we just want to see what is going to happen, and that is the basic part of it. The other part of it is we have dataloggers and telematics on the bus, and we collect all the data just to see how the bus performed on the route at any point in the route throughout the day. Doug Delony: Has anything surprised you so far in how the bus operates? How it drives? Or, you know, what it takes to get it running? Andrei Dragomir: So, as of right now, I haven’t had any real big surprises. They were all expected because I’ve been trying to work on procuring the bus for the past few years and learning the technology. One thing that surprised me 1) is the quietness and 2) how the operators have accepted the bus. That was a big surprise. I thought it was going to be an issue. But the operators jumped in, and after about two hours, they figured out they can drive the bus without touching the brakes, so we can take back some of that energy through regenerative braking, and that was the biggest surprise for me. How… Doug Delony: That’s really cool. Andrei Dragomir: …the operators embraced the technology. Doug Delony: You know, one of ‘em actually spoke to me, and he said he loved the torque because it takes off like a Tesla. And I said, “Okay. That’s fine. But when you have passengers in here, and you gotta obey… Andrei Dragomir: Yes. Doug Delony: …the 30-mile-hour speed limit, let’s not drive it like a Tesla.” [laughs] Andrei Dragomir: That is correct. We actually—that was part of the testing that we have done. So, in acceleration terms, we tried to copy a hybrid bus, a diesel hybrid bus, diesel-electric bus as much as possible so we do not throw the passengers around. So, that’s a very good point. Doug Delony: Sure, sure. I only spoke to a couple of operators, but like you, they really seemed to like the vehicle. And, of course, it’s always nice to have something nice and new. I’ll wrap this up by talking a little bit about earlier this year, we hosted U.S. Labor Secretary and partners, including some union leaders, at our Kashmere facility. I know you were there. Because this also requires a big investment in people. We have to train up mechanics. We have to train new mechanics to work on these vehicles. And I know that’s not necessarily your department, but can you talk to a little bit about that and how complicated it is to train up? Andrei Dragomir: So, I think at METRO, we are a little bit ahead of the curve because we’ve had hybrids for so long. Most of our mechanics are already trained in high voltage. We just now have to train the mechanics more on the battery, the diagnosing side, the electric motors. And they just pretty much have to become a little bit of a scientist because they will have to come with a laptop plug-up and see what is going on. You cannot just open up the battery and take a look at it. You have to work with the computer to be able to decode exactly what is going on with the bus. Doug Delony: And I like that we have some apprenticeship opportunities coming up, and we received some federal funding to help train up some mechanics on some of these aspects that you’re speaking to here. So, you know, as these opportunities become available, you know, pay attention to the local unions, of course. AFL-CIO, I know, is one that we’re working with, and head over to ridemetro.org/careers to see what kind of opportunities. I know even in the traditional aspect of our mechanics that we use right now, there’s always opportunities, and we have hiring incentives. Do you have any other last comments or thoughts? Anything that I skipped over or anything you’d like to add? Andrei Dragomir: Just that it’s a new technology, and it’s exciting. And I cannot wait to see what comes up on the horizon. Doug Delony: So, thank you so much, Andrei, for your time. This is great. This is so fascinating. I feel like we could have gone on for an hour. Andrei Dragomir: Thank you very much. I appreciate it. Doug Delony: That wraps it up for this edition of the Next Stop. If you want to read more about METRO’s vision for a greener future, again, head on over to ridemetro.org, and you can use the little search bar to search for “sustainability.” Thank you to you, the listener, and all of our METRO customers. As a reminder, you can reach METRO’s awesome customer service team. Call us or even text message us: 713-635-4000. I’m Doug Delony. As always, drive less and do more with Houston METRO. [Music plays to the end] RMETRO/pti:kh Page 1 of 1